Propane Water Heater for Outdoor Showers and Heating a Spa

Update 2-2020:
I recommend the Camplux 5L portable Liquid Propane Tankless Water Heater rather than the Eccotemp.  It seems to be a higher quality, and the gas runs more continuously even in a little wind.  It does not require you to turn on any switch or button to ignite the gas; this is done automatically when the unit is turned on.  In short, the Camplux unit runs far more dependably and continuously than the Eccotemp -- which maddeningly turns off in the slightest bit of wind.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B01CJPU6JI/ref=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=all

I also recommend the Seaflo Water Diaphragm Self Priming Pump rather than the Flojet.  It comes with a strainer and barbed hose adapters, so using 1/2" vinyl ID tubing is easier than the Eccotemp.  I don't like the fact that the threaded connectors on the pump are plastic, but the supplied plastic strainer and hose adapters are also plastic, so there's less chance of stripping threads on the pump.  The outlet connector/adapter combination did leak a bit, so I bought another plastic barb adapter from Amazon, and changed the tubing from stiff braided tubing to more flexible clear vinyl tubing.  This stopped the small leak.  The Flojet pump has been a bit maddening -- it leaks constantly.  The Flojet accepts proprietary plastic fittings with O-rings in them, and these snap in place on the inlet and outlet ports of the pump.  These fittings often leak, and when they do, it's hard to get them to stop.

https://www.amazon.com/Diaphragm-Priming-Gallons-Marine-Demand/dp/B00P8BE6S8/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=seaflo&qid=1580918986&s=hi&sr=1-2

This fitting replaced one of the leaking connectors:
SHURFLO 244-3926 Elbow Fitting Wingnut Swivel-Nylon 14 Npt (F) X 1/2" Barb
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B002IZJ7D6/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_4?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

With the Camplux water heater and Seaflo pump, I was able to heat water for a spa every day for two weeks, with almost no trouble at all.  With the Eccotemp and Flojet, I find myself running over to the heater every five or ten minutes, constantly messing with the connections, and constantly having to turn the unit on and off again to get the burners going.

*******

Here's my earlier post: 

I discovered an Eccotemp propane water heater on Amazon, along with a very helpful review.  It's made for providing hot water on demand for showering when camping or otherwise outdoors.  I am using it to heat an outdoor spa with propane gas rather than using electricity, which is a huge cost savings here in California.  A disclaimer: the instructions for this propane water heater state that one should NOT use this heater for a spa.

Here's the product description:

Eccotemp L5 1.5 GPM Portable 37,500 BTU Liquid Propane Outdoor Tankless

Water Heater

https://www.eccotemp.com/eccotemp-l5-portable-outdoor-tankless-water-heater/

Eccotemp L5 Portable Tankless Water Heater

Simply attach a garden hose and a 20-pound (lb.) propane tank and you

are guaranteed to enjoy the luxury of hot water anywhere. The Eccotemp

L5 Portable Outdoor Tankless Water Heater is the original and

best-selling portable water heater on the market today. You get instant,

endless hot water wherever you are. The Eccotemp L5 is perfect for

campsites, cabins or simply around the house. Wash your car, wash your

boat, take a hot shower, or even wash your horse and the Eccotemp L5

will help make daily tasks much easier. This model includes an

electronic ignition powered by 2 "D" cell batteries making it great for

off grid or any location where electricity is not readily available. The

ideal operating range for the L5 is 20~80 PSI with a 1.5 GPM flow. It is

compatible with 12-volt pumps and works perfectly with our EccoFlo Pump

& Strainer.

Here's the review from Amazon (thanks, reviewer!):

Update: living in California and running the spa 24/7 @ 104 degrees, it

has been costing me upwards of $130.00 a month in electricity. I monitored it's consumption using a kill-a-watt.

So I put together a propane powered water heating system and it heats

the spa at about 1 degree every 2 or 3 minutes so it only takes about an

hour or two to get it up to 104 and costs me pennies. I've attached some

photos of it (without the propane tank inside the container). Now I just

flick the switch on the front, an LED turns on, pump stars up, heater

automatically fires up and the spa starts heating. Couldn't be easier.

And now I don't need to run the filter all the time either. Much nicer.

In case anyone is interested here is the parts list, all purchased from

Amazon except for the 20lb propane and hoses I got at Home Depot all

hoses are 3/4" clear so they are barely noticeable going into the spa:

Eccotemp L5 Portable Tankless Water Heater

Flojet 2.9 GPM pump

Kastar LCD AC Adapter 12V 6A

Bond 67635 Tank Hideaway

30 Amp 12 Volt LED ON-OFF Rocker Switch

20 lb. propane tank

Here's my experience.

This Eccotemp L5 water heater is EXTREMELY fussy and I have finally, after several hours of testing, hopefully figured out how to make it stay on consistently.  I do NOT recommend Eccotemp as a company.  There are about a dozen sellers and makers on Amazon that appear to sell the exact same unit -- probably all these are made in China from the same factory; US distributors import them and then slap their own labels on them. 

I did buy my first heater from Home Depot, and it was an Eccotemp.  I also bought a Flojet water pump from Eccotemp without realizing it -- just bought a new unit on Amazon and realized later that the seller was Eccotemp. 

First, don't ever give your email or phone when shopping on the Eccotemp website!  I did check out their website before buying the unit from Home Depot.  Their website would not apply a coupon and was generally hard to navigate.  I went through checkout and gave up.  Then salesmen from Eccotemp emailed me twice asking why I left the item in the shopping cart.  I finally wrote them back and asked them to stop bothering me.  Then someone from the company CALLED ME on my phone and left another message!  That's borderline stalking!

In later interactions with the company, I did not find customer service to be helpful.  They demanded to know irrelevant information like the serial number and did not bother answering my questions.  When I decided that I had enough problems with the Flojet pump, which had arrived in a repackaged, reused state -- the agent from Eccotemp refused to consider my return request and told me that all items are sold refurbished.  I sent her my Amazon receipt, which clearly stated: New.  After that, she stated that I could return the item but did not supply a return shipping label.  Obviously, it would be up to me to pay for shipping of this item back to them. 

Again, I'd recommend not buying from Eccotemp.  Their customer service was not helpful, and I think that they spend far more time and effort on trying to sell units than trying to support customers.  I see many sellers of propane water heaters -- Camplux, Triton, Camp Chef, and the list goes on. 

I actually did not want to return the pump and heater.  It would have been a pain in the butt to package everything up and ship it.  I just wanted to have some help in solving the problems that I was having with the items.  I kept reading tips on the internet and eventually figured out solutions to the problems I was having: leaks, an overheated pump, and the heater not staying lit for more than a few seconds at a time. 

Leaks:

I believe that plumbing and keeping water from leaking, in general, is among the most deceptively simple tasks known to man!  No matter how many Youtube videos, how simple the job seems, water will still leak if I do my own plumbing tasks!  Always!  And we are all living on the edge -- I was eating breakfast in my house one morning, and boom! the pipe under the kitchen sink just burst like that, no warning.  If I had not been there and shut the house water down within seconds, the house would have had all kinds of water damage!  This kind of blowout could happen to anyone at any time in any house, building, etc!  My wife's father had this happen in his house a few years ago.  She and her sister were in his house when a pipe burst.  Even though they were there, water destroyed the wood floor and carpet (mold problems!) and it took weeks to repair and thousands of dollars!  We are all living on the edge!

Eccotemp L-5 propane water heater fittings for hoses: propane, shower hose, and 1/2" male pipe fitting from left to right.  

OK, so this Eccotemp water heater has an inlet for H2O and an outlet.  The outlet works fine.  It came with a shower hose metal thing and I just took off the shower head (which seemed fine, but is not a good thing to do - more later).  Easy.  No leak, there's a washer on the inside of the connector. The hose attaches to the bottom of the unit easily and without leaks, with just hand-tightening. 

The Flojet pump is awesome and is a well-known brand.  The Flojet pump takes water from hot tub and pumps it into the propane heater.  It came with some fittings.  The plastic barbed fittings work great, they have O-rings on the sides and they slide into the Flojet easily, and accept 1/2" vinyl tubing.  No leaks, easy installation.

The water input to the water heater was a huge pain in the ass.  I spent hours trying to get the correct adapter so there was no leak either at the heater end or at the Flojet end.  Here's what I discovered:

On left: Delrin (plastic) 1/2" pipe fitting adapter with brass Eccotemp-supplied adapter to fit 3/4" garden hose fitting.  The brass part was too deep for the plastic part.  Using two O-rings instead of one solved this leakage problem.  On right: Eccotemp-supplied 1/2" pipe fitting to 3/4" garden hose fitting.  This adapter leaked in the middle at at the garden hose end initially.  

1.  Using a garden hose and the adapters supplied with the Flojet, both ends leaked.  At the heater end, there's a 1/2" male pipe fitting connector.  The heater came with a garden hose adapter that swiveled.  This goddamn part leaked endlessly.  I finally changed the hose that I was using, tightened the hose to the adapter end very tightly (have to make sure that O-ring hits the end of the hose) and problem solved - on that end. 

Another problem I found is that the Eccotemp-supplied brass adapter end going to the heater was too long, with too many threads.  The 1/2" male pipe fitting coming out of the heater only has about three threads.  The adapter has 4 times as many threads and is way longer than it should be.  Just be sure to screw in this adapter all the way up -- it is a real pain in the butt, especially if you have to unscrew this multiple times, like I did. 

Finally, the end to the Flojet also leaked.  The Flojet has a nice system where a plastic (Delrin) adapter with an O-ring just slides right into the pump and snaps in place.  No leak there, easy to install.  The problem is with the Eccotemp-supplied brass adapters.  They are all too long. To use a garden hose on the unit, I had to put a Flojet Delrin adapter with a male 1/2" pipe fitting.  I then used an Eccotemp brass adapter that converted the male 1/2" pipe fitting to a male garden hose fitting. That combination leaked.  I solved the problem by using two O-rings (1/2" pipe fitting) rather than one.  The adapter from the Eccotemp was just too deep; the Delrin adapter from the Flojet could not maintain a seal with just one O-ring.  It required two O-rings. 

2.  Using 1/2" ID vinyl tubing for all water connections: I was pretty set on using vinyl tubing rather than a garden hose for my water connections.  For the input hose to the water heater, I finally (after hours) found the proper adapters:

I've tried various adapters and believe that I found the proper adapter (not at my local hardware store):

ATITOWEL 5PCS 12mm Barb Brass Hose Fitting, Connector - G 1/2" Female Pipe Fit For 1/2" Hose ID

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SRPP4DB/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The barb fitting on these adapters fit my 1/2" ID vinyl hose but was just a bit too small.  This meant that the vinyl hose slid on easily, but I needed to crank down the hose clamp as tight as it would go, so the vinyl hose connection to the barb would not leak.

Take it from someone who spent hours trying to get the adapters and other parts to work with 1/2" ID vinyl hoses.  Just use the garden hose adapter for the incoming water to the heater, and a 6 to 10 foot RV garden hose (suitable for drinking water) instead of vinyl hoses and 1/2" pipe fittings. 

For the hose that takes water from the spa into the Flojet, I used a Flojet Delrin adapter and 1/2" vinyl tubing.  This worked fine and never gave me any problems. 

Flojet pump overheating:

Before I figured out what was going on, the Flojet pump would just stop working.  It became quite hot, as did the 12V power adapter.  I wrote Eccotemp asking if the pump had thermal protection (where it would shut off automatically if it got too hot) but they did not care about answering my question, demanding that I supply a serial number and other information. 

I finally, after much reading, decided that the Flojet must indeed have thermal protection.  It's not stated anywhere that I could find.  Eccotemp was no help.  One person in forums stated that he had the same problem and was thinking of buying a pump that was specially designed to handle hot water from a spa. 

I finally realized that the Flojet is a really smart pump, and pretty bulletproof.  It was working too hard without the shower head connected to the output hose (I had taken the head off, and water was coming directly through the stainless hot water hose into my spa).  This was making the pump work too hard.  I put the showerhead back on, and this provided some pressure so the pump was not working so hard.  This solved most of the pump overheating problems. 

The Flojet is a great unit.  Be sure to have the water output connected to something (like the shower head) that provides some pressure.  I had an open hose at first, and this provided unrestricted flow from the output of the Flojet.  Turns out that this is not a good thing -- it made the Flojet heat up constantly. 

The next problem I had was that the propane heater kept shutting off.  In normal operation, it should turn on, the two-D-cell spark igniter lights the flame, and the pump circulates the water from the spa through the water heater.  However, the heater kept shutting off (the flames would go out) and the pump overheats for some reason when this happens. 

Propane flame keeps shutting off:

Here's what I wrote to Eccotemp customer support:

Dec 7, 1:48 PM EST:

I have spent hours trying to get this L5 heater to work consistently. It just will not stay lit. I know about the heater needing to sense water pressure, and the 20-minute shutoff (sometimes, however, it stays on for over 40 minutes). Today I noticed that hot water is dripping from the inside of the heater approximately one drop every five seconds. The heater just will not stay on for more than three minutes. I bought this from Home Depot and can return it but wonder if your staff has suggestions, and if this is expected behavior or not.

Here's the reply from Eccotemp:

Tech Support M, Dec 9, 2:06 PM EST:

Hello Norbert,

Thank you for contacting Eccotemp Systems Help Desk. Our goal is to provide you with the best customer service possible. Please note we have received your request and will take all steps necessary to resolve your issue.

For your records, your ticket number is located above. We regret any inconvenience that this issue may be causing you and please be assured that we will do what is necessary to resolve it. Please don't hesitate to contact us anytime or to update this ticket as needed.

Regarding this matter, please provide us with photos of the following to better assess the issue:

* Important: Overall photo of the water heater's set up and installation (including plumbing and ventilation) is required before any parts, unit replacement or further troubleshooting can be processed

* Internal view of the water heater

* The damage or point of the problem (leak)

* Serial number located at the right side of the heater

Once these photos have been received, we will contact you to let you know how we can proceed.

We appreciate your time and thank you for choosing Eccotemp.

* If you have not done so, please take the time to register your product with us here https://eccotemp.zendesk.com/entries/23454072-Product-Registration.

Regards,

Vanessa

Technical Support Team

Eccotemp Systems LLC

1-866-356-1992

(Monday to Friday 9:00 AM - 8:00 PM EST)

****

Well, that did not answer my question. 

I found some tips on the internet:

- One of the common problems, why your Eccotemp L5 water heater turns off after successful lighting, is because of the insufficient pressure. If you have the old L5 model, there is a washer inside the brass fitting on the end of the regulator hose which goes into the heater. If it fell off just push it back in. Now the sufficient pressure will sustain the combustion. New model doesn't include this washer.

- If there is a high wind and water heater is not protected, it will blow out the flame.

Disconnect your incoming water line. There is a screen immediately inside of the incoming water pipe that may have clogged over time and is reducing the water flow and water pressure. (Clean that out if needed)

Fresh batteries (Inserted correctly?)

These tips from the Eccotemp website were hints -- but what the heck do the flame sensors actually do?  Do they tell the igniters to send a spark if the flame is out -- because that sure is not happening. 

Check to be sure the thermocouple located in the top left of the heat exchanger is pushed in enough. The thermocouple acts as a second flame sensor.

Check to be sure the flame sensor is hooked up and for sure connected.

This tip from an Eccotemp forum was a bit more helpful:

Prior to completing the following steps, please make sure that your L5 / L7 has completely cooled and your gas supply is turned on. Take the cover off by removing the 2 screws at top and 2 on the bottom and the knobs pull out. Disconnect and reconnect all wire connections to ensure that everything is properly seated. There is a flame sensor directly above the burner. There are 3 black rubber wires going up to the burner area. Two of these rubber wires are attached to igniters and one is attached to the flame sensor. The flame sensor has a noticeably longer piece of metal. It should be on the far right and have a piece of blue tape on its wire. The L5 / L7 has a heat sensor at the top left. This looped yellow wire is centered over a small square opening in the heat exchanger. Make sure that this wire loops slightly inside of the opening. If it is bent away from the opening, you can push on it and it will bend easily.

I did take the front cover off the heater and saw the heat sensor.  I did push it down slightly further into the opening.  Again, the post does not say exactly what the heat sensor does -- does it get the flame going again if the flame blows out? 

I also figured out, after my own experience and reading forums, that the flames get blown out if there is any wind or breeze whatsoever.  Just a touch of wind, and this heater will not stay lit.

I put a metal shield across the front of the heater, which blocked wind blowing into the top of the heater, and this seems to help greatly. 

 

Other comments and answers that I saw during my long research on the web:

-very disappointed with it, because it goes out extremely easy. It barely takes a slight breeze. I will have to return it. 

-Blows out with the slightest breeze. Switch in water wand very difficult. This unit works very well in zero wind. The temperature is consistent and comes up fast. A small breeze will however blow out the flame. The switch in the wand is very difficult to operate. I contacted them about the wand difficulties and just got blown off. ..Hate the timed on/off switch. Must be very protected from freezing temperatures when not in use. If you have an enclosed heated space w only cold water this unit might work great, if you don't get a defective wand.

-Eccotemp L5 purchased 6/14 has developed a problem with gas burner going out frequently. Always able to start, Some times it will stay lit

Answer from Eccotemp: The number one reason that the portable tankless water heater does not ignite is that there is not enough water pressure. You need a minimum of 0.25-10 PSI, sustained. Municipal water should supply enough water pressure. Most 12/18/120/240 pumps well as long as they are capable of delivering pressure of 0.25-10 PSI or greater.

*****

I finally have gotten this propane water heater to heat water, stay lit, and not leak for about a week now.  The whole project was a giant pain in the butt.  I feel that Eccotemp could provide this kind of information with the owner's manual rather than force every customer to figure this stuff out himself.  I wasted HOURS of my time trying to solve the leakage and shutoff problems. 

I never was able to get this question answered:

Does Flojet turn off if it gets too hot?

If the propane water heater's flame gets blown out, why does the Flojet pump get hot as a result?  What is causing it to work so hard?  In normal operation, the Flojet pump gets warm, but not hot, even after 40 minutes of pumping hot spa water. 

As a note, for our 250-gallon hot tub, the propane water heater heats the spa up by about 18 degrees every 60 minutes.  That's amazing!

CBS News has quietly ditched its overly dramatic "new" music

Anyone notice that CBS News has quietly ditched its overly dramatic "new" music?  It was proudly announced in 2016 and I immediately thought that it was too overdone.  Well, if you watch CBS News today, that "new" music seems to be gone.

Here's CBS News' proud story on its new music in 2016:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cbs-evening-news-with-scott-pelley-debuts-new-theme-music/

Crutchfield Huge FAIL With Technical Support for Installing a Kenwood Stereo in Sprinter RV

I am writing this so folks out there don't blindly trust Crutchfield when buying audio equipment for their vehicles.  Crutchfield has a great reputation for providing excellent, knowledgeable service for folks who want to buy a new car stereo or speakers.  They probably are pretty good in general, but they really failed me this time.  I describe the details below but the quick summary is that their customer support technicians did not know the correct answers to my questions, and even the supervisors/experts on their staff gave me the wrong answers.  Continually.  All the time.  What should have been a one-hour job at most turned into a weeklong project involving tons of internet research made more difficult by the bad advice given to me by Crutchfield's "experts".

I contacted Crutchfield numerous times.  To their credit, I never had to wait on hold too long to get a tech support person.  Unfortunately, every time, I had to repeat my question and what I had purchased, the problem I had -- and every time, the initial agent would put me on a long hold to consult with a more expert person.  EVERY SINGLE TIME, Crutchfield would come back to me with THE WRONG ANSWER.  I finally figured how to wire the stereo power on/off myself, with NO HELP from Crutchfield -- in fact, contacting Crutchfield was an impediment, resulting in hours of wasted time.  I had to find the answers to my situation by browsing dozens of YouTube videos.

The only reason I can think of for Crutchfield terrible technical support is that very few customers replace the stereos in Sprinter vans.  I bought a used Sprinter RV several months ago, and its provenance might appear to be quite complicated -- Freightliner slapped its logo on it, the vehicle and engine was made by Mercedes Benz, but it's called a Dodge Sprinter 2500, and Roadtrek made it into a Roadtrek RV.  They are all the same engine and vehicle, however.

Here are the details:

I went to Crutchfield's website, and after a phone conversation with a customer service tech named Cole, I bought a JVC double-DIN head unit.  I just wanted something that would play mp3-formatted CDs and had an AUX and USB inputs.  I did not want anything fancy like navigation or a DVD player.

Cole sent me a link to a shopping cart, and I bought most of the recommended items.
Scosche CR1294B Dash Kit
Metra 70-1784 Receiver Wiring Harness
Metra 40-VW12 Antenna Adapter
Custom Instructions: 2007 Freightliner Sprinter Camper Van




I was a happy camper initially, but I had no idea of all the work, wrong answers from Crutchfield, and internet research that I would have to do.  Here are the problems that I encountered.

1.  The Scosche CR1294B Dash Kit had this description on the Crutchfield website: "Fits select 2017-17 Dodge, Freightliner, and Mercedes-Benz Sprinter vehicles — single-DIN and double-DIN radios".

This thing did not fit.  I had to use a Dremel tool to cut off about 1/4" of plastic around the borders to get it to fit.  After installing this, I went to Amazon and realized that I should have gotten this item instead (Crutchfield recommended the wrong part, in other words):
SCOSCHE CR1292B 2003-07 Dodge Sprinter Van Double DIN or DIN w/Pocket Installation Dash Kit
https://www.amazon.com/SCOSCHE-CR1292B-2003-07-Sprinter-Installation/dp/B0015BVHO6/ref=au_as_r?_encoding=UTF8&Make=Dodge%7C40&Model=Sprinter%202500%7C2424&Year=2007%7C2007&ie=UTF8&n=1077068&s=car&vehicleId=6&vehicleType=automotive

No huge problem.  I got this thing installed and did not mind doing some work with my Dremel.  However, this shows how Crutchfield gets things wrong!  Even something as simple to get right as this item .


2.  The nightmare was getting the Kenwood stereo properly installed so that it would turn on and off with the engine.

As I understood it:
I will not have steering wheel control of the stereo.  OK.
I should thread the bluetooth mic under stuff, mount it on vent, steering wheel, someplace where it will pick up my voice
Just crimping butt connectors should work fine for the wiring.
All the above proved correct (I have not tested bluetooth mic yet).

Now for the problems:
Crutchfield sent a Metra 70-1784 Receiver Wiring Harness.  It was not difficult to wire together.  The problem was that the instructions were incorrect when it came to the power provided from the Sprinter.




I got started, then wrote to Crutchfield:
I am about to start wiring the harness. I have a couple of questions. First, there is an orange/white wire on the harness, but not the Kenwood. It looks like this goes to DIMMER. Is that just left unconnected? (the answer was YES, leave that wire unconnected).  Secondly, I seem to remember writing a note to myself that some wires should be crossed, eg orange going to red or something like that. I can't find the note. Just wondering if I am remembering incorrectly.

Quinn: oh no worries and actually the best people to reach out to about wiring questions is going to be my tech team. They do not do chat but you can reach them at 800-955-9094 they can dig into that wiring to make sure everything is as your thinking :)


I got the wiring harness done and the stereo stayed powered on, all the time, whether the engine was on or off.  This was not acceptable since I would have to remember to turn the stereo off every time I turned the engine off.  At some point, I would forget this, and I'd come back to a dead battery.

So I contacted Crutchfield again.  The tech said: switch red to yellow and yellow to red - this is because this Metris harness fits all kinds of cars and the Sprinter is a bit different.  It turns out that he was WRONG!  This took me hours to figure out.

I followed the tech's recommendation to reverse yellow and red wires.  Upon doing this, the stereo would power on only when the engine was off.  With doors closed, the stereo was off.  When engine was turned on, the stereo was off. The CD always would eject or accept, however. I had these questions: why is stereo turning on ONLY when door is opened, not immediately, and turns off when doors close or engine is turned on?

When I connected yellow and red directly (not reversed), the stereo would not go on at all.  CD player would never eject or accept. In other words, there was no power going to the stereo at all with the yellow and red wires connected to yellow and red (not reversed).

I gleaned the following from internet forums:
Red is switched power and yellow is constant.

if your tryin to make it where you dont have to turn the ignition on an have the dash come to life to listen 2 the radio then all you have to do is wire the red and yellow TOGETHER. yes wire them together an jus insulate the bare wire. BUT the ignition should have an ACC position to where you can turn the radio on only w/o the fuel pump turnin on

The vast majority of Head units use the Yellow wire to draw the majority of current required to run the unit that's why it is fused with a 10 Amp fuse (although I have seen some units fused with 15 Amp fuses) the red wire is just the Accessorie power wire, the Headunit senses the voltage on that wire and powers up.

The main power input is drawn in via the Yellow wire (high current) also referred to as permanent powers cable.
The trigger voltage to switch on the stereo when you switch on your key is drawn in via the red wire (low current).

Well, connecting or reversing the power lines did not work, either way.  I talked to Marc at tech support, who sent me a wiring diagram:



9-8-19: Marc at Crutchfield said that the yellow-red wires did not need to be switched.  He said to cut and tape off the yellow wire from the Metris (it goes to thin brown wire from the van).  (It does not make sense to me).  Next: the Kenwood (stereo) yellow wire should go to the red wire coming from the Metrix.  The Kenwood (stereo) red wire is power.  The power needs to come from another power source, like the lighter, or a fuse adapter.

As a test, I wired the red and yellow wires from the van side to the red Metris side (the yellow Metris wire was taped off).  This runs the risk that the stereo would be powered on all the time, even when the van is off.  This worked...the stereo turned on.

I then started looking at the Sprinter fuse boxes (there are up to three in this van) to find a 12V power source that would switch on and off with the engine. Marc suggested using the windshield wiper fuse, which would be switched and was a usual fuse to tap into.

Marc suggested that I do this:
Tap into your fuse box https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8b9CvUMcNQo

I learned this:
This fuse and indeed the fusebox layout seems to be the same as Mercedes Benz:  https://www.benzworld.org/threads/where-to-tap-ignition-on-12v-from-interior-fuse-box-for-dashcam.2318441/

Sprinter has ATC/ATO fuses (bigger fuses than my Honda Odyssey, which has ATS fuses, which have pointy ends).  the mini ATMs are "pointy" also.

I ordered VIOFO 4PCS Circuit Fuse Tap ATC ATS MICRO2 Mini Adapter Holder

From the Internet: The vast majority of fuses in these RV’s are ATO/ATC fuses
The regular-sized ATC fuse is more common than the ATO. The ATC has a fuse element that is closed (hence the “C” in the code) inside the plastic housing, sealing it from the environment to prevent corrosion from developing. The ATO fuse is open on the bottom, exposing the fuse element between the blades


Well, after hours of testing the fuse box and searching the web for Sprinter fuse box diagrams, I could not find any fuses that was switched!  The results were confusing.  I thought that maybe I was going crazy -- I know how to use a voltage meter, after all.  The windshield wiper fuses, and in fact all the fuses that should be OFF when the vehicle was switched off, seemed to be ON all the time!

I talked on 9-11-19 to Marc (again), and asked this time for a supervisor.  Lloyd the supervisor said that the Sprinter van is data driven, so windshield wiper fuse and other fuses, in fact all fuses, are always hot, always on.  There are no switched fuses.

Lloyd, the supervisor, was totally, absolutely wrong.  Here's what I discovered:

I believe that this is what was happening:
from a forum: I was bummed out because, at first, it seemed like the constant 12v was always on, even with the ignition off. An always-on converter and dash-cam was going to cause vehicle dead battery issues. After more experimenting, it turns out that the "always-on" 12v will shut down after about 30 minutes (a feature to prevent someone from leaving the map lights on and ending up with a dead battery). Perfect. I get a bit of extra record time after parking, but my vehicle battery is safe.

I started reading internet forums yet again, and discovered that folks had tapped switched power from the fuse to the cigarette lighter.  I tested this and the fuse was indeed switched power.  Finally! I put a tap fuse on this fuse and it works.  The stereo loses its place on the CD after a few minutes but it is indeed switched on or off with the ignition.

Details: I ended up tapping the switched power from #13 in the F1-F25 section, fuse box near drivers side left foot: No. 13: 15 amp:  Cigarette lighter/glove box lamp/radio/body manufacturer loading tailgate/PND (personal navigation device) power socket
For the stereo and another 12V lead coming out of the fusebox, I used a 10amp fuse.

No thanks to Crutchfield (sorry guys, I really expected more help from your vaunted technical support than all the misinformation that I received), I now have a nice new head unit that plays MP3 CDs and powers on and off with the engine on or off -- like it should!

*****
Update 12-3-19: a fellow from Crutchfield named Chris contacted me after I sent them my complaint.  He was helpful and seemed to genuinely want to learn from my experience so that they could update their database.  Here's some of what he wrote and what I wrote:

Chris wrote: Thanks to your confirmation that the cigar socket fuse # 13 is literally controlled by the car as an accessory circuit, we have added a specific notation to our internal notes about the car so that we can give better advice in the future.

Hey since you have already squared away the wiring there is no need to change that out.  But if you like I can send you the other mounting kit at no charge.  Do you want that sent out at no charge? The 142CR1292B kit?

The 142CR1294B was sent because the vehicle was thought to be the factory radio delete option which is what the camper van version usually comes with.  The CR1292B kit is usually called for when the van has the factory radio originally in it.

I wrote: Thanks for the positive attitude on all this.  I never know when leaving feedback if it will be taken seriously, and if I will be threatened with a lawsuit rather than thanked.  

Eccotemp Propane Water Heater for Outdoor Showers and Heating a Spa

**** 12-17-19: I have an update on how to install and use this propane water heater, with helpful tips.  This Eccotemp L5 water heater is EXTREMELY fussy and I have finally, after several hours of testing, hopefully figured out how to make it stay on consistently.  I do NOT recommend Eccotemp as a company.  See my more recent blog post for the tips and the problems that I encountered with the company and my unit ****

I discovered this product on Amazon, along with a very helpful review.  It's pretty great.  It's made for providing hot water on demand for showering when camping or otherwise outdoors.  I am using it to heat an outdoor spa with propane gas rather than using electricity, which is a huge cost savings here in California.  A disclaimer: the instructions for this propane water heater state that one should NOT use this heater for a spa.

Here's the product description:

Eccotemp L5 1.5 GPM Portable 37,500 BTU Liquid Propane Outdoor Tankless
Water Heater
https://www.eccotemp.com/eccotemp-l5-portable-outdoor-tankless-water-heater/

Eccotemp L5 Portable Tankless Water Heater
Simply attach a garden hose and a 20-pound (lb.) propane tank and you
are guaranteed to enjoy the luxury of hot water anywhere. The Eccotemp
L5 Portable Outdoor Tankless Water Heater is the original and
best-selling portable water heater on the market today. You get instant,
endless hot water wherever you are. The Eccotemp L5 is perfect for
campsites, cabins or simply around the house. Wash your car, wash your
boat, take a hot shower, or even wash your horse and the Eccotemp L5
will help make daily tasks much easier. This model includes an
electronic ignition powered by 2 "D" cell batteries making it great for
off grid or any location where electricity is not readily available. The
ideal operating range for the L5 is 20~80 PSI with a 1.5 GPM flow. It is
compatible with 12-volt pumps and works perfectly with our EccoFlo Pump
& Strainer.

Here's the review from Amazon (thanks, reviewer!):
Update: living in California and running the spa 24/7 @ 104 degrees, it
has been costing me upwards of $130.00 a month in electricity. I monitored it's consumption using a kill-a-watt.
So I put together a propane powered water heating system and it heats
the spa at about 1 degree every 2 or 3 minutes so it only takes about an
hour or two to get it up to 104 and costs me pennies. I've attached some
photos of it (without the propane tank inside the container). Now I just
flick the switch on the front, an LED turns on, pump stars up, heater
automatically fires up and the spa starts heating. Couldn't be easier.
And now I don't need to run the filter all the time either. Much nicer.
In case anyone is interested here is the parts list, all purchased from
Amazon except for the 20lb propane and hoses I got at Home Depot all
hoses are 3/4" clear so they are barely noticeable going into the spa:

Eccotemp L5 Portable Tankless Water Heater
Flojet 2.9 GPM pump
Kastar LCD AC Adapter 12V 6A
Bond 67635 Tank Hideaway
30 Amp 12 Volt LED ON-OFF Rocker Switch
20 lb. propane tank


Here's my experience.
I put together the Ecotemp propane water heater with Flojet pump to heat my spa with propane.  It works well but I still have to fix a small leak.

I believe that plumbing and keeping water from leaking, in general, is among the most deceptively simple tasks known to man!  No matter how many Youtube videos, how simple the job seems, water will still leak if I do my own plumbing tasks!  Always!  And we are all living on the edge -- I was eating breakfast in my house one morning, and boom! the pipe under the kitchen sink just burst like that, no warning.  If I had not been there and shut the house water down within seconds, the house would have had all kinds of water damage!  This kind of blowout could happen to anyone at any time in any house, building, etc!  My wife's father had this happen in his house a few years ago.  She and her sister were in his house when a pipe burst.  Even though they were there, water destroyed the wood floor and carpet (mold problems!) and it took weeks to repair and thousands of dollars!  We are all living on the edge!

OK, so this Ecotemp water heater has an inlet for H2O and an outlet.  The outlet works fine.  It came with a shower hose metal thing and I just took off the shower head.  Easy.  No leak, there's a washer on the inside of the connector.

The Flojet pump is awesome and is a well-known brand.  The Flojet pump takes water from hot tub and pumps it into propane heater.  It came with some fittings.  The plastic barbed fittings work great, they have O-rings on the sides and they slide into the Flojet easily, and accept 1/2" vinyl tubing.  No leaks, easy installation.

However, the inlet pipe on the water heater is a male 1/2" garden hose thread.  I put a garden hose with a 1/2" to 3/4" adapter on there, and it worked fine but the adapter on the Flojet pump leaked (as did the adapter end at first, until I realized the hose connector was too short, and had to buy a new hose!).   I spent hours of troubleshooting on this simple effing thing!

I've tried various adapters and hope that I found the proper adapter (not at my local hardware store):
Hose Nippel (sic)- Barb Hose Fitting 1/2" Female Brass Half inch for Repair - Garden Hose Thread - 12 mm Wide
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PV9K6S4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
***update 12-11-19: this adapter does not work -- the barb fitting was 3/8", not 1/2".
I recommend this instead:
ATITOWEL 5PCS 12mm Barb Brass Hose Fitting, Connector - G 1/2" Female Pipe Fit For 1/2" Hose ID
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SRPP4DB/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The barb fitting on these adapters fit my 1/2" ID vinyl hose but was just a bit too small.  This meant that the vinyl hose slid on easily, but I needed to crank down the hose clamp as tight as it would go, so the vinyl hose connection to the barb would not leak.

BTW, don't ever give your email or phone when shopping on the Eccotemp website!  I left the item in there and bought their unit from Home Depot.  Their website sucked, would not apply a coupon, etc.  I went through checkout and gave up.  Then salesmen from Eccotemp emailed me twice asking why I left the item in the shopping cart.  I finally wrote them back and asked them to stop bothering me.  Then someone from the company CALLED ME on my phone and left another message!  That's borderline stalking! You have been forewarned.

Bose Hearphones -- Tips on Using These Good Hearing-Assisting Devices

Anyone who knows me knows that I am very hard-of-hearing.  It's a real disability, and few people recognize it as such or understand the problems that it creates.  The social isolation of not being able to hear is huge, and most people (especially in public) don't realize that you can't hear them.  They think that you are stupid, or that you are rude in ignoring them.

I've worn hearing aides for the past 30 years, but usually only for certain social situations.  All my previous hearing aides were only good in one-on-one conversations in quiet rooms.  They were useless in any kind of restaurant or party setting.

I have had about four pairs over the  years, and the audiologists kept saying "This model is great, it is so small that  no one will know you are wearing a hearing aide."  They had it all wrong, every one of them.  I'd tell them that I was not vain and would prefer having a large trumpet that I could point to whomever I wanted to hear.

So like many people, I'd rarely use the old hearing aides, and when a time came up where I needed to use them, I'd open the case, take them out, put in a battery, and 50% of the time, the battery would be dead because I used it a month ago and they die so quickly when exposed to air.  Also, the manufacturers say that the batteries will die even if you seal them back up -- but in my experience, that is not true.  So I will seal the batteries up, 50% of the time they will work.  Most of the time I just give up and don't even put the hearing aides in.

My hearing has gotten worse in the past five years, or maybe it's because I don't talk to people much these days.

Helpfully, in the past few years, the FDA has allowed companies like Bose (who make great headphones for audiophiles and music lovers) to make "hearing-assisted devices."  These are hearing aides, but they are not allowed to call them that.  It's a very good thing.

I have been using a pair of Bose Hearphones for the past two years, and they are great!  I can actually socialize and talk to people in restaurants and parties now.  The below are some notes and tips on using the Bose Hearphones that I've learned over these past two years.


I plan on using the Bose over my existing hearing aides.  They seem far easier to have around and to keep charged up.  I did prefer adjusting the volume using my phone -- you can do the volume and directionality adjustments on the headset, but it is confusing and somewhat difficult to do since the controls are on a short cord to your ear, too short to see with your eyes.  My phone matched up instantly with the Hearphones every time I turned the Hearphones on.  The app is really easy to use.  Just volume, treble/base control, and you choose the directionality.  That's about it.  Nothing to it.


I don't think that the Bose Hearphones will be a game-changer or change your life, but they will certainly help in social situations.  Hopefully we'll use them more just because they are easier to charge and handle, and have better directionality.  They don't cost that much more than other Bose products and offer noise cancellation (I think, seemed to do it for me) and the ability to listen to music from a bluetooth device like a phone.  Oh, my Samsung Note 4 phone was made in 2014, and I bought it refurbished for $150.  I am sure that your phone will work with the Bose app, but if it doesn't, getting a used or refurbished phone that is fairly recent can be incredibly cheap these days.  

Here's a link to the product page:
https://www.bose.com/en_us/products/wellness/conversation_enhancing_headphones/hearphones.html

I recommend these Hearphones highly, and I use mine a lot more than my "real" hearing aides.  I like them because they are fairly large, I can get them up and running on my ears fairly quickly, and they keep a charge for a long time (6 hours?  longer?).  I can charge them using any phone charger since they charge using a standard micro USB cable and any phone charger.  I like earbuds (some folks do not).
I don't have to fuss with small batteries and small devices.  I don't really like the part that fits around the neck, but that's because I have no neck, or a very thick one.  I generally only use them in social situations and phone calls.  They have been great for situations like dinner with family anf friends. I've put them on once in a while just to hear the birds sing in the morning.  I don't wear them for more than a few hours at a time.

You can buy Hearphones from Bose online and return in 30 days at their cost.  You can see them in person at a Bose store, but maybe not a Bose factory outlet.

Only thing I don't like is that they don't sync up to my phone every time (in the past, I've figured a solution to the problem by just sticking to the same phone and not switching phones).  I rarely actually mess with my phone and sometimes just use the manual controls to control volume, which can be difficult to figure out.  In fact, I use them this way now mostly: I set them up with my phone (volume 60, front direction) and after that just put them on and off without using my phone.  I do usually have the same phone nearby because if the Hearphones don't sense the phone nearby they will say all kinds of annoying things over and over.  They work GREAT when I talk on the phone.  They also can serve as noise cancelling headphones and to let me listen to music with noise cancelling working.

I just learned something about bluetooth headphones/earbuds recently.  If you sync a pair of headphones (particularly these) to one device, then it's a real pain (perhaps impossible) to try to sync those headphones to another device.  I have a pair of Klipsch earbuds, minimal directions etc -- sync'd them to a Dell laptop.  Tried to then sync to a MacBook Air.  Could not.  Read instructions, tried over and over with the power button crap, blue light blinking.  Could NOT sync until I went to the Dell laptop and disconnected the Klipsch headphones from the Dell laptop.  Only then could I sync to the MB Air -- and it was easy.

Bluetooth headphones supposedly can go into a mode where they will reset their partnership with one device and will sync with another device -- but in practice I've found that may be impossible -- it is FAR easier to disconnect from the original device and then sync to another device.  Some bluetooth headphones can sync to two devices or more at once, but these do NOT seem to.

I think that happened with a pair of Hearphones that I gave my dad. We had huge problems trying to get them to sync to his phone, but I think it was because we switched phones.  I've heard that these don't sync well with iPhones.  I use an Android Google Pixel. I keep that Pixel phone with me for everything, and I particularly don't try switching the Hearphones from one phone to another.

With my dad, he used them once, then the dang Hearphones did not sync to his phone, and he never tried again.  I tried showing him the manual controls but no joy.  With old folks, if it is not dead simple, they won't use it.  Show it once, if it doesn't work for them once, that's end of story.

My suggestion: Get the Hearphones, set up on your main phone with the Bose app, dead simple -- just choose volume and direction.  Then keep it that way.  When  you turn the Hearphones on, be sure that your original phone is on and nearby -- that way the Hearphones will be happy.  Most of the time you won't need to fuss with the phone settings or the manual control settings on the Hearphones.  However, both the phone app and the manual controls are actually pretty simple and easy to use -- it just takes some practice, getting used to the device.

Thanks, Woot! This is Just GREAT Customer Service!

I bought some batteries and a charger from Woot about 10 days ago.  They dropped the price yesterday.  I actually did notice it  but figured I had bought too soon.  

Then I got the email below.  I did not even have to ask, and they gave me back the difference in price.  

Now THAT is GREAT CUSTOMER SERVICE.  THANKS, WOOT!!!

no-reply@woot.com via amazonses.com	2:33 PM (1 hour ago)
to temp1

	Dear photoagent101, Haveth thy noticedest thath- WOW, that's hard to do! How did Shakespeare manage it? Look, let's skip all that flowery corporate talk and get right to the point: you're getting some money back today. That's right! Hooray! The long version is that you recently bought the Tenergy Arlo Batteries 4-Pk w/ Fast Charger and, after you did, we dropped the price. And that's not fair to you, is it? You would have waited if only you knew! And we agree. And that's why we're making it right. You'll be seeing $10 (per quantity ordered) on your credit card very soon. We're sorry for the hassle, but we think you might forgive us just this once, right? After all, you just scored an even BETTER deal than you were expecting! Welp, that about covers it. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the above, please contact us at support@woot.com. Prithee, anon, adieu, Verona, Your sweet admirers at Woot.com     ORDER DETAILS   Order Date:November 8, 2019 Order Number:#xxxxxx Additional Charges and Refunds Additional Refunds ($10.00)     Order Items:     Tenergy Arlo Batteries 4-Pk w/ Fast Charger $29.99 Sold on Electronics.Woot Condition: New Style: 4 Pack Batteries and Charger Quantity: 1 Subtotal: $29.99       Is all that information correct? If not, please contact Woot Customer Service via our Support Page immediately. Make sure you tell us your Woot username and order number - we'll need to know those things to help you.